In this episode, you’ll learn the importance of combining entertainment, education, and branding for successful events, the psychology of team roles, and Geoff's advice for taking career risks to advance in the event planning industry.
Geoff Thatcher is a creative leader who has crafted world-class experiences such as the grand opening of Warner Bros. World Abu Dhabi and the new College Football Hall of Fame GAME ON! AI Experience. Whether it’s a video dome in Dubai or working with the Mercedes-AMG F1 team in the United Kingdom, Geoff’s work transcends borders. In 2020, he published The CEO’s Time Machine that TD Magazine said “is a great way to prepare your mindset going into conversations about how your business can navigate our new, uncertain world.
Here’s what you’ll hear about in this conversation:
[00:00:00] Rachel Moore: Welcome to Event Experience by Bizzabo, the podcast where we bring the best and brightest event experience leaders together to share stories, tips, and lessons learned from creating some of the world's biggest events. I'm Rachel Moore, your podcast host.
[00:00:23] The best way to learn about storytelling is to tell a story. And we're about to do just that. As we open up the microphone to Geoff Thatcher, founder and chief creative officer at Creative Principles. Geoff is about to take us on his journey from a cleanup boy at an amusement park to his role today in crafting world-class experiences for corporate visitor centers, museums, and theme parks, and how blending entertainment, education, and branding can make every event a success. Time to curl up in your favorite chair and let us tell you a story about Event Experience.
[00:00:56] Our guest this episode is an experienced creative director who crafts world class experiences in corporate visitor centers, executive briefing centers, museums, theme parks, and live events.
[00:01:16] He's also the founder and chief creative officer at Creative Principles and is the author of The CEO's Time Machine. I'm very pleased to welcome to the Event Experience podcast, Geoff Thatcher. Geoff, thanks for joining me across microphones today.
[00:01:30] Geoff Thatcher: Thanks, Rachel. Nice to meet you. Where are you located by the way? I'm just kind of curious where your studio
[00:01:34] Rachel Moore: Oh I love answering this question too, cause it's always interesting. I'm in Denver, Colorado. I'm in a basement of a house in Denver, Colorado, but that's where I'm stationed. How about you? Where are you joining from?
[00:01:44] Geoff Thatcher: I am halfway between Savannah, Georgia and Hilton Head Island, South Carolina in my home office.
[00:01:51] Rachel Moore: I've been to Savannah once and it is lovely. I sat on the Forrest Gump bench. I know I did that cause I think that's in downtown, but have you been in Georgia for a long time?
[00:02:01] Geoff Thatcher: Five years.
[00:02:02] Rachel Moore: Nice. Excellent.
[00:02:03] Geoff Thatcher: So we raised our kids in Cincinnati and then realized we don't like the cold.
[00:02:09] Rachel Moore: Agreed.
[00:02:10] Geoff Thatcher: So, and two of our children have graduated from the Savannah College of Art and Design. So we're like, you know what, let's just move down here. And
[00:02:16] Rachel Moore: Follow the creators. That's right. I love it.
[00:02:19] Geoff Thatcher: absolutely. We love the beach. We love the beach.
[00:02:22] Rachel Moore: Oh, see I'm a more of a mountains girl, which is appropriate where I live, but I'm sure some of our listeners can relate, be like, we're beach people too. So that's great to hear.
[00:02:31] We're going to segue into some get to know you questions now. And I know we got to know you a little bit at the top of the podcast. But we're going to continue that trajectory.
[00:02:39] So my first question we always like to ask our anyone involved in any kind of events. You're going to have to be in action at some point. So doing a lot of walking and standing and running around. What are your go to on the ground event day shoes?
[00:02:54] Geoff Thatcher: I like to wear these like, I'll show
[00:02:58] Rachel Moore: I love your showing them. That's great.
[00:03:00] Geoff Thatcher: They're kind of like they're kind of formal but they're kind of comfortable. So that's how I like formal shoes that are comfortable. I have these ones, I have another pair that I wear with my suit.
[00:03:12] And I do kind of like to wear a suit with very comfortable shoes. So Cole Haans.
[00:03:17] Rachel Moore: Definitely not the first, no, you're, will you probably be the last person to recommend Cole Haans? So excellent. You're in good company. Is there anything that you're listening to, watching or reading these days that you can't put down and it does not have to be events or work related.
[00:03:30] Geoff Thatcher: My wife and I listen to a lot of podcasts. And we love listening to the Ramsey show, Dave Ramsey podcast, because these, because we just love talking about like, oh, can you believe that people spend all that money on this and that?
[00:03:43] Rachel Moore: It's like watching hoarders or something like that. You're like, ah,
[00:03:46] Geoff Thatcher: know you're just like, and these people call in and it's like the problems they have and you're like, oh my gosh.
[00:03:52] So, so, I listened to a very interesting podcast this morning. Honestly with Barry White, she was interviewing the new Argentinian president. It's fascinating. So I like podcasts.
[00:04:03] Rachel Moore: Nice. Well, we're glad because this is a podcast too, so we always like, we like people who like podcasts. Is there a particular social post or a piece of media or even a hot take about events that you found interesting lately?
[00:04:16] Geoff Thatcher: I kind of am a sucker for the Babylon Bee. I think their stuff is really funny, and I think there's a lack of humor in the world today, and people are afraid to, make fun of things, and they make fun of everybody, and that's really funny. So, that's the latest, I would say, yeah, Babylon Bee social media posts.
[00:04:38] I mean, I was laughing on one this morning because they had this post about them. Cannibalism of all things. It was very funny anyway.
[00:04:47] Rachel Moore: Hey, if you can, yep I'm a South Park fan myself, so I can definitely appreciate it.
[00:04:51] Geoff Thatcher: Check out the Babylon Bee. Very funny. So,
[00:04:54] Rachel Moore: Can you describe for us, what is your role with Creative Principles, what's your world like on a day to day basis, give us a little bit more insight into that.
[00:05:02] Geoff Thatcher: What I love about my job is that I started in this experience industry of working in theme parks and, museums and brand experiences as a 14 year old cleanup boy at Lagoon Amusement Park out in Farmington, Utah at the base of the Wasatch Mountains, actually. And my, my job title actually was clean up boy.
[00:05:22] That was my job. That was the official title as a 14 year old, for two years, and then I moved on to a lifeguard. And then I was a train engineer. Like literally wore the overalls steam engine, driving a train around of a zoo, a little zoo at the amusement park and managed the rides.
[00:05:38] Then I worked in entertainment. I was a substitute stuntman when, one of our Wild West shootout performers wouldn't show up and really just loved working at the theme park for a while. For 10 years, 14 to 26, all the way through high school and all the way through college.
[00:05:54] And yes, I did take a long time to graduate from college, but just like, and why not? Right. So, just, Absolutely love the industry. My major was journalism, and so I, I was offered a full time job at Lagoon in entertainment and declined and went into journalism, and I quickly found out that, journalists aren't really happy people, they're kind of miserable and I was used to working with fun people, like, I mean, we get to, like, produce firework shows and, we get to like say every day to people, have fun.
[00:06:27] And I missed it. I missed that. And fortunately I found a design firm in Cincinnati, Ohio, where I was working as a journalist called JRA. And they were looking for a writer and I was a storyteller, a journalist, are storytellers. And I had a background in, in amusement parks and got my lucky break and got hired as a creative writer.
[00:06:48] And at the time JRA did what we do now creative principles where about a third of the work was theme parks. A third of the work is, educational and cultural attractions, museums. And a third of the work was essentially industrial theater or brand experiences. So in the nineties, I was writing, Crazy, big, musical numbers for Comdex and these big, computer trade shows, I remember once we did a whole song and dance number for Pizza Hut.
[00:07:13] Rachel Moore: Oh, wow.
[00:07:14] Geoff Thatcher: It was you're simply the best by Tina Turner, better than all the rest,
[00:07:18] Rachel Moore: I remember that.
[00:07:19] Geoff Thatcher: yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it was a blast working across all three. And so still today, we really try to balance our work between, entertainment, education, and branding. And we love it. And, we, just, just this week we're out in Los Angeles looking at three new 3D screen demos and bidding on work haven't found out if we've won yet, but we're literally in a competition now that work on the ABBA museum.
[00:07:46] How cool would that be? Right? In Sweden. And so. So we love it. We've worked a ton in Abu Dhabi. We were the creative directors for the grand opening launch of Warner Dhabi. And, I mean, just to be there. I mean, I think one of my favorite stories out of that is we were producing this viral video for the grand opening with Devin Supertramp, which is just like this YouTube, YouTuber star.
[00:08:07] And Devin's great. And we were on the fifth day of the shoot. Literally still building the theme park, right? I mean, like, literally, you're there shooting video and a crane, a little cherry picker will come by. Beep beep, right in the middle of your shoot. And then, the security system will be tested.
[00:08:24] Construction workers will run by. And so we're on the last day of the shoot and we're in Cartoon Junction at the Carousel. Right? And it's, Cartoon Junction is the DC the Looney Tunes area. Sorry, not DC Comics, the Looney Tunes area. So then you have Bugs Bunny, Donald Duck, Scooby Doo, Tom and Jerry, Acme, all that stuff.
[00:08:42] And we have this really awesome carousel. And we're trying to shoot this video, Where, and again, this doesn't sound really crazy, but the whole point of the video was we got the world's number one parkour athlete, Dom Tomato, from Australia to fly up and he was running through the theme park, kind of basically being chased by security and meeting all the characters, meeting, all the villains from DC Comics and Batman, meeting Bugs Bunny and everything, and so running through, running through the whole thing, and so his, what we were doing is he was jumping out of Bugs Bunny's hole.
[00:09:13] Right next to the carousel, and then he was gonna run around past Daffy and, run through. Now, so we had the costume performers from the theme park, from when Warner Brothers rolled Abu Dhabi there, and it was Bugs and Daffy, and I have to say, these performers, I mean, they were a week before opening, or a couple weeks before opening, and they were fantastic, and they totally would always stay in character.
[00:09:37] And they would not break character. They were so strict about staying in character. And so, if you understand anything about Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, they have a, an attitude, right? And so, so we're trying to explain to Daffy what we want him to do as this parkour athlete's jumping out and running around.
[00:09:56] And, so the director says, okay, we want you to do this, and this. And by the way, you have to appreciate we have a half hour of these characters in costume because they're only allowed to be in costume for a half hour before they have to go take a break. And the carousel keeps shorting out because the park's not even open yet.
[00:10:12] So we have like a two minute window where the carousel will spin. And then the carousel really would shut down completely. All the lights would go out and they have to reboot the system and then run the carousel again. And so. So we explain all Devin explains all this to Bugs Bunny and then Bugs Bunny looks at him and just says, no, like his beak goes no.
[00:10:32] Cause it's Daffy. Daffy is like, got attitude. He's, so Daffy's like, no, I'm not going to do it. So the director's like, Oh funny, Daffy. Very funny. Very funny. But no, really, I need you to do this, when this parkour athlete jumps out. And then Daffy turns around and shakes his tail at the director.
[00:10:50] Basically to say, kiss off, not going to do it, right? Because he's in character at this point. The director literally collapses to the ground and is just like, please, just somebody work with me, right? So I pulled the stage manager over who's managing Daffy and I'm like, could you please tell Daffy just to do what he's being told, please?
[00:11:09] mean? So finally we did the scene that was great. You can find it on YouTube, just Googling. I think it's Batman. Meets Joker, Parkour, Warner Brothers World, and it's just fun video. But, that's just one example of what we do. I mean, we're all about creating great experiences and we love working with museums, working with the College Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta now the Delta Flight Museum in Atlanta.
[00:11:30] We just did a project here in our hometown of Savannah, Georgia with the Coastal Heritage Society. But we also work on big theme parks over in, mostly in the Middle East. And it's just a lot of fun.
[00:11:40] Rachel Moore: It sounds like a blast. I mean, I'm just sitting here listening, thinking like, Oh my gosh, being in those environments and being able, like you said, where you're able to be creating these experiences just on different levels. And I know we have an audience of event planners and they plan all kinds of events.
[00:11:57] Now, are they negotiating, with Daffy Duck on a daily basis? Maybe not but they're still running into, I was thinking like, while you were talking, they're still dealing with all these very relatable, unexpected twists and turns. Whenever you're trying to, Hey, we have a plan, let's execute it.
[00:12:12] Or we need the carousel to be going around and not shorting out. We need this thing to work. We need that person to comply. We need, we need all these things to happen in concert and just being at the center of it all, trying to make it happen. That, that really leads me into just kind of trying to.
[00:12:29] Finding all the things that are relatable about what you just shared. I mean, we do on this podcast, talk so much about, events of all kinds, right? We've talked to people who are kind of the more traditional B2B like trade shows, exhibitions and things like that. But we've also spoken with people who they plan concerts and entertainment festivals.
[00:12:47] I love hearing about, the theme parks, and I know we'll talk more about the museums and things like that. It does seem like you face many similar challenges especially when you're talking from a planning experience. We can also talk about attendee experience. But yeah, I would love to hear about that.
[00:13:03] Geoff Thatcher: An event is an experience. And we work on events all the time. We, our clients, I mean, the grand opening of Warner Bros. just to be clear, we didn't design the theme park. We do design theme parks, but we didn't design the theme park on that one. We were literally working with the event.
[00:13:21] Planners and producers, we were the creative director. And so the brief we got from Warner brothers and the client was make this grand opening last, make it last. So that's why we did a viral videos. Cause we wanted the grand opening to last beyond this one day when you have this big grand opening event.
[00:13:39] And we've, I, what I love about event planners and producers more than anything else is, I can come up with ideas. I love coming with ideas. The very best ideas are those true creative leadership and true partnering with great producers and great planners can be executed and turned into reality.
[00:13:56] And so that's what I love. I love it when we can work together as a team to actually produce something. And again, my background, especially back in the nineties was doing all of those events and doing all of that, all that stuff. And we still do, We don't do a ton of events but we are always happy when a client calls and said, Hey, could you help us out with this grand opening?
[00:14:16] Or could you help us out with this event? We love that. And it's, I think the event planners and what we do in permanent experiences, the same principle is true. What do you want? You want a great story. And then you want to translate that story into an experience and whether you're doing that at a massive scale at a theme park, or a very small, intimate scale at a museum exhibit, or whether you're doing it.
[00:14:41] At a big event, a conference, or a trade show, the principles are always the same. You first have to start with a great story. What's the story we're telling? And then we have to translate that story into an experience for, if it's a theme park or a museum, it's our guests. If it's a trade show or an event, it's attendees.
[00:15:01] But it's the principles are exactly the same.
[00:15:03] Rachel Moore: Well, you said something too earlier that was, I think just threads across all of it. You're in the business of entertainment, education, and branding. And that's exactly what you know, whatever, like you just said, whether you're doing a more permanent experience or event or something that is, more just captured in within one or a few days, that's the crux of what everyone's goal is.
[00:15:24] You're trying to entertain, you're trying to get the attendees to enjoy themselves, or make sure they're getting out of the experience, what they expected and maybe even unexpectedly. You're also trying to educate whether that's about, let me give you some lasting takeaways you're going with.
[00:15:38] Or just educating you saying, Hey, you're in a new environment. Here's how to get the most of it. It's new. And we want to make sure you're kind of onboarded into it. And of course, in the branding, right, where you're making sure that around all of this is coming from a business, a brand that wants to make sure that, they're the ones that delivered this to you for whatever those lasting takeaways or, revenue streams or whatever might be.
[00:16:00] But really those three things are very much mainstays in all of these events.
[00:16:04] Geoff Thatcher: Amen. I mean, there are certainly business reasons to diversify your work across three industries. But it is absolutely true that the very best experiences and the very best events combine a blend of branding, entertainment, and education. That's what you want. And if there's one message I would give to your audience of event planners and producers, it's that, there are formulas that work.
[00:16:28] I mean, it goes back to when I worked at Lagoon in the entertainment department, we had a song and dance Review, very traditional theme park song and dance review, and we always would end by dropping the flag. All right, they'd come out and see seeing one of the I thought was the 80s So it was like, Lee Greenwood.
[00:16:44] I think I'm proud to be an American Yeah, and then we would drop this giant American flag behind the performers. All right, and what would happen? Well, we get a standing ovation every time.
[00:16:55] Would stand up and they'd start applauding and we'd get a standing ovation. It's a formula, it works.
[00:17:00] And we've found over the years that there is a formula when it comes to experiences. And again, every event should be an experience. And that formula is very simple. We call it the experience model. It begins with attract. How am I going to get their attention? When somebody shows up at this event, how am I going to get their attention?
[00:17:17] And when I get their attention, What do I want them looking at? What type of icon symbolizes the story of this event, right? And this experience that we want to have. So you got to attract their attention. Next you have to build trust, right? How do I build trust with them? Sometimes that's, you know what, we're going to build trust with our staff.
[00:17:35] That's how we're going to build trust or no, we're going to build trust with them, but we're going to walk them through some type of, immersive experience or some type of exhibit or no, we're going to build trust with a great dinner the first night, right? Where they get to meet, whatever it is, how are we going to build trust with them once you get their attention?
[00:17:53] And once you build their trust, then you need to give them the information they need to move forward in their journey.
[00:17:58] So, again, in the experience model, there's five principles to it. First is attract, second is trust, and then third is inform. I need to give them the information they need to move forward in their journey.
[00:18:09] After you've done that, after you've gotten their attention, after you've built their trust, after you've given them the information, then well, then you can hit them with the emotion, then you can internalize the message, then they're ready for the keynote, then they're ready for whatever it is, it's the most important thing that needs to happen at that event. And then finally, fifth and most importantly, act. You got to get them to do something, right? What are you going to challenge them to do? And honestly, it's the same in the best theme park attractions. If you've ever been to Orlando or Universal Studios in LA and you've gone to the Harry Potter attraction, right?
[00:18:43] What's the attract at Hogwarts. Well, it's the castle, of course. Well, you see the castle. I'm attracted. I drawn in. Then you're walking through the queue. And seriously, anybody who loves the books or loves the movies are standing in the queue and they're like, this is legit. I am actually in Hogwarts, right?
[00:18:59] Trust is established. Then you go to the pre show and the defensive dark arts classroom, and they tell you what's going to happen. They give you the information you need. Harry, Ron and Hermione come out, they give you the information you need to move forward in the journey. Then you ride the broomstick, you ride the ride you actually.
[00:19:13] internalize the message, and then you find yourself at the exit standing in front of the retail store. I know, I was like, exit through retail, but no, what it's about becoming part of the story, because you're standing there looking at all these Quidditch jerseys, and you have to decide, am I Hufflepuff?
[00:19:29] Am I Ravenclaw? Am I Gryffindor? Or am I Slytherin? And so you become part of the story, and you challenge them to act. And so when you're planning an event, Once you get that story, just focus on how am I going to attract their attention, how am I going to establish trust, what information do I need to give them, what's the big emotional moment where I'm going to internalize the message, and what's the challenge?
[00:19:54] What's the ask? What am I going to act? What am I, what do I want them to do?
[00:19:58] Rachel Moore: I have to say this is, I've never thought about executing, again, a trade show or a conference or something like that. But Yeah. Thinking through it the way, because I've been fortunate enough to be at Universal Studios and go through that Hogwarts experience. So everything you're saying, I'm like, yep, I remember that.
[00:20:15] I remember that. I remember that. And of course I remember it because they did a great job. I, that's something that I, it's not like, Ooh, I have to think about that. Did I remember that? No, everything you just said resonated. Cause I, it's clear in my memory, but. But not only that you're describing, like, if we could all craft our events the same way, even down to what you said about, okay, now they've finished the experience and we're going to send them through the retail where we want them to buy something.
[00:20:38] It'd be great if they bought something. And even if they don't buy it there, guess what? They're about to go out into Hogsmeade and, buy something out there. That's exactly what event planners are doing too, because at the end of the day, you did craft this whole experience and, possibly using the same, kind of model that you're using where you're tapping and all those things, but at the end result, you're like, but I still want you to do something for us, and if you've hit on all those notes going up to there, you are going to be successful in getting that final, that fifth thing, that ask from them.
[00:21:06]
[00:21:07] We'll be right back with more Event Experience after the break.
[00:21:11] Rachel Moore: Let's face it. Venting won't fix outdated overpriced event management software that lacks the support and features you need. But Bizzabo's Event Experience Operating System will.
[00:21:24] Say goodbye to your frustrating legacy event software and hello to building more events that matter. Visit bizzabo.com. That's BIZZABO dot com to learn more about the Event Experience OS, KLIK SmartBadge, and more..
[00:21:41]
[00:21:43] We're back with Geoff Thatcher as he shares the risks around a disjointed event experience for attendees.
[00:21:52] Geoff Thatcher: Most of the corporate events I've worked on, we did one recently for Anaplan, you know what I mean, financial software, right? But what do they want? People in financial departments to become evangelists of their product. They want them to join the story. They want to be become part of, this experience.
[00:22:10] That's the ask even more than like, Hey, will you just buy? No, they want advocates. They want to build advocates within organizations that love their software. And promote their software because it helps them planning with financial stuff, which don't even I don't know, again, don't know much about that.
[00:22:25] But that was one of the most recent events we worked on. So anyway, yes, we love the experience model and it works. It works. It works. And in fact, if you go to a museum and you're like, things are disjointed or if you go to an event and it's like, yeah, I mean, it looks good. But what do I do next? Where am I supposed to go?
[00:22:43] I'm confused. What's the message? What am I supposed to do? It's usually because they didn't follow that model. They didn't, they just didn't. And so you get confused and a little frustrated sometimes, because you just don't know where to go. You don't know what the ask is. You don't know what, like, what am I supposed to take away from this?
[00:23:01] It's like those keynotes that we've all heard right at these events where, some consultant like me is telling the executive, Hey, be vulnerable. Tell a story. But they don't remind the executive or help the executive to connect that story to a point. What's the point of the story?
[00:23:20] And so you're sitting there listening to the story and you're like, yeah, okay, but why did you tell that story? Or why did she tell that story? Cause I'm not sure what the point was. When we tell a story, we need that story to actually make a point. There needs to be, there needs to be a purpose to that story.
[00:23:36] Rachel Moore: And you, I have to say too, I know part of your bio and, describe yourself as a storyteller. Truth. I mean, I loved how even describing like your background and giving us kinda where you came up from your origins, into what you do today followed the whole thread through.
[00:23:51] Right. And we're able to kind of experience, everything and all the choices you made along the way. And it all ties into your why. Which is what you were just saying, where it's like, if you're going to tell me a story the why should be tying into why am I here then? Why did you say that?
[00:24:05] Because it needs to be relevant to why we're having this conversation right now for this podcast. Why is this person sitting in this keynote and about to go hopefully watch a bunch of other sessions and content that the event planners have orchestrated. But there needs to be the why in there and just tying it together.
[00:24:21] It really does bring up the point too, where this isn't all on the single event planner. I know you alluded to it as well earlier. There are so many people involved. Whether it's a person dressed up as Daffy Duck or or the parkour person or the person in charge of the carousel and making sure it still goes round and the event planner who came up with the whole thing and, hiring your agency to say, Hey, come in and make this a lasting opening show for this particular amusement park.
[00:24:48] But there's just so many, there are so many teams that are, need to be part of that story, right? Yeah.
[00:24:54] Geoff Thatcher: It takes a lot of people to create an experience. And I mean, Yeah, it's, I mean, I love event planners and in fact, since I'm, I've got event planners, hey, listen, if you need someone to tell great stories, I love giving speeches. It's not our core business. I was just on a phone call talking about registration kiosks at a new experience we're working on where we're going to scan people's faces and transform them through AI and it's incredible.
[00:25:22] Incredible experience. So I mean, so I'm on with industrial designers and programmers and, the shop, the fabricator trying to figure out how to do this kiosk. I'm the creative director. I'm trying to figure it out with the idea. But I love produce. You need a bunch of people to get it done.
[00:25:36] And you know what? If you ever want to have someone speak at your event, who's not one of your traditional additional motivational speakers, that comes in and that's what they do for a living and they're all the same. Sorry, they kind of are all the same. I mean, they're good. I'm not they're good But you know, I never want to be a professional speaker and that's all I do is speak But I love telling stories.
[00:25:57] I love giving speeches. I you know, and i've written Oh my gosh, how many keynotes i've written over the years and some sometimes You know, it's it's it's a lot of fun You I love writing notes, but I also love delivering them, right?
[00:26:12] Rachel Moore: Well, well, that brings me to a question I was going to ask you too, because you mentioned you again, we'd go talk to her or talk about your origins and how you were a performer. And I always am really curious to talk to people who have been on the stage or in the last spotlight as well as now they're behind it.
[00:26:30] Right?
[00:26:31] Geoff Thatcher: So just to be clear, I was a substitute
[00:26:34] Rachel Moore: Hey, were you performing?
[00:26:37] Geoff Thatcher: Yes, but I am not an actor. In fact, there was this one show that we did and again, you have to appreciate this is Lagoon Amusement Park in Farmington, Utah, right? And the show is called The Mormon Brothers, okay? And it started with these two bad guys.
[00:26:53] They'd go into the sheriff's office in Pioneer Village. It's this historic Pioneer Village, right? And they'd bam, shoot their guns with a closed door. And then they come out putting on the sheriff badges because they just killed a sheriff, right? So, and they're putting on the sheriff's badges.
[00:27:05] And then they start to ransack the town. But as they're ransacking the town, these very nice people come out. They just go brother, nice to meet you. And they're like, how'd they know we were brothers? Well, it's Utah. Of course they're gonna call each other brother, right? So, brother, you know what I mean?
[00:27:18] Sister, brother, so they do this whole thing, and then they, and they, yeah, then the deputy that didn't get shot shows up, that would be me, and then, they get shot, and I, would fall down into a wagon. They gave me this, the simplest, easiest role, right? And that role was literally, I had like two words, I'd stand on the rooftop, they'd shoot me and I'd fall into a wagon full of hay, right?
[00:27:39] Very easy. But then how it ends, right? Is the bad guy wins, right? And he holds up these two bags of cash and says, crime does pay. Thanks folks. And then everybody's standing around looking and going, what?
[00:27:52] What? It's over? That's it? The bad guy wins? And right as that happens, the sheriff comes out in a white hat, white shirt, white vest, white Levi jeans, right? a shotgun, right? And the bad guy turns around and says, wait a second, sheriff. I shot you. You're dead. And he just says, son, you forgot. This is Utah, and I've been resurrected! Bam! Bam! And shoots the shotgun. The bad guy dies. And then he tells everybody to have a very lovely day. The show ends.
[00:28:27] So, it was
[00:28:29] Rachel Moore: It sounds awesome. I, as somebody, and I still am going to call you a performer because I, I think it applies because you had the experience, you, you're able to be the person who's in the middle of all the planning. And also I would say to you say you like to speak as well from stages and stuff, there's that performance part too.
[00:28:48] I, And even just reflecting back to what you said about working with performers, working with I'm going to always come back to Bugs and Daffy because a two favorite characters would be that's hilarious about how they were so in character, but I mean, I guess I'd like to find out from that perspective what are the other things that you think that event planners can keep in mind today?
[00:29:07] Obviously, it's so easy to get very embedded in the weeds of the details. Yes, I need that carousel to be working. Yes, I need this and that. But that kind of, I guess, that talent experience, if you would, of how to kind of handle that when you're in the middle of all this, these logistics.
[00:29:23] Geoff Thatcher: That's a great question. And what I would say is, when it comes to being in character, right? When you're putting on an event, You are required to work with a lot of different characters to produce that event. And I believe in a behavioral tool that's called the Belbin. It's after, Meredith Belbin is this researcher in the UK, that came up with this model called the Belbin.
[00:29:53] And it basically assigns you different roles, right? Like, all different roles in a play, right? So, for example, I'm a plant. Which means I'm an idea person and a shaper, right? I'm assuming the producers that are listening to this call or the planners that are listening to this call are coordinators or monitor evaluators or, implementers, right?
[00:30:12] All of us have, there's all these different roles that we have on a team. And you need those roles on the team. And what's great about the Belbin is he assigns us strengths. So clearly my strengths are coming up with new ideas and making connections. And, I'm a shaper. So I push. I try to get things done.
[00:30:27] That annoying creative director is always pushing, right? That's, those are my strengths, right? And again, the same thing is true with implementers and monitor evaluators and coordinators, they have strengths, but what Belbin did is he identified what he calls allowable weaknesses. And that is in order for me to have these strengths as a plant.
[00:30:46] I also get easily distracted. Squirrel, I do. I get easy. Sometimes I'm not communicative, right? It's like my wife says to me all the time, I'm not in your head, right? You have to explain something, right? And as a shaper, I'm prone to provoke. I sometimes can provoke people. That's, those are my allowable weaknesses.
[00:31:03] And like for a producer who might be a coordinator or another role, I'm prone to provoke. Sometimes they're seen as manipulative. And guess what? A good event planner sometimes needs to be manipulative. That's an allowable weakness. And what I love about that is that when you're putting together a team, first of all, make sure you have all the different characters on that team.
[00:31:23] Because if you have a team full of shapers and plants, it won't get anything done and everybody will hate each other. You know what I mean? You need to have complementary, you need to have people playing their roles. And then we simply just need to like, have a little mercy and understanding because. I need this producer to be manipulative because I need this work to get done.
[00:31:44] So I'm going to put up with that. It's okay. You know what I mean? It was like somebody told me once they were really mad because the business development person on our team was a resource investigator as the role in the Bellbum. They gossip. I'm like, well, duh. That's what, that's their job is to gossip.
[00:31:59] So just, if you don't, if you don't like that, then don't tell her anything that you don't want being shared. Right. But that is an allowable weakness. It's an allowable weakness. Don't focus on trying to fix your allowable weaknesses. Focus on being merciful and understanding that, and it's about managing expectations.
[00:32:20] I mean, we had a designer once and he's German. And so, he's a little grumpy sometimes . And his critique could be very critical, right. Very hard to take. But if you just position as like, Hey, that's his role on the team. Is to sit back and listen and you feel like he's ignoring you.
[00:32:37] And then all of a sudden he comes out with a comment and you find it offensive, but it's helpful. So you know what, that's his role on the team. And so let's embrace that role. Let's celebrate that role because we need someone on the team like that. And if you're an event planner, if you're a producer and you're putting together an event, you have to bring all these characters together.
[00:32:56] You know what, just spread throughout your entire team this idea of allowable weaknesses because you know what, we need each other and we need to have a little mercy with each other to look past those weaknesses because we need the strengths that come and are married to those weaknesses in order to produce these events.
[00:33:14] Rachel Moore: Really great insight. Yeah. I love that you're getting, I love we're getting into the psychology of stuff too. And I can't wait to, for these the show notes and everything too, because we'll be linking everybody to these things that you're talking about too. The experience model and and what was the name of the last thing you just talked about?
[00:33:27] The
[00:33:27] Geoff Thatcher: It's called the Belbin Team Roles.
[00:33:30] Rachel Moore: roles. Excellent. Yeah. Super helpful.
[00:33:32] Final question. Easiest question. Where can our listeners find and follow you online?
[00:33:37] Geoff Thatcher: It's going to sound, I mean, yes, we have a website at creativeprinciples. com and, but probably the easiest way is just Google my name, Geoff Thatcher, G E O F F Thatcher, you can find me on LinkedIn. You can find our websites. You can find me on Instagram. Again, Geoff Thatcher. I love X.
[00:33:52] I don't post a lot to X, but I love, I get most of my news from X. All of those places. And certainly you can find our book, The CEO's Time Machine which we wrote when the pandemic hit. We said to, yeah, I turned to my daughter Zoe, because we're a family company, by the way, family design firm.
[00:34:09] So we're I turned to my daughter Zoe, who's another designer and illustrator with us, and I said, Hey, remember that book we talked about writing? Let's just get it done. And so, so she did 43 illustrations in three weeks. We proofed the book, edited it, called the publisher, got it out, and literally it took, I think, five weeks for us to get it done during the pandemic.
[00:34:28] Right. Right. I mean, we published it in end of April, 2020,
[00:34:32] Rachel Moore: Oh, no. Oh,
[00:34:32] Geoff Thatcher: and it was so much fun. I mean, cause we knew, I mean, your audience will know that, I mean, our work. Disappeared overnight, you know what I mean? I just was gone. So, so we had to do something and we decided instead of watching Netflix that we'd publish a book and it's great.
[00:34:47] And I think it has a lot of, a lot of the same messages we've talked about today in the book. So, um, yeah, so that's the best way to find me.
[00:34:55]
[00:35:04] Geoff's about to skill up our eventprof listeners with advice about how to grow into new career pathways.
[00:35:11] Geoff Thatcher: Take a big risk at some point in your career to shake things up. For me, I left a very stable job as the, executive creative director at a large, publicly traded media company. I was the, we were the experienced agency within a large, holding company.
[00:35:30] And I went down to Rio, and I worked on for six months, and I lived for three months in Rio, on the opening ceremonies of the Pan American Games. And hated it. It was miserable. But I learned a lot. And when I came back, the same agency hired me back for double my salary. So, take a big risk. Do something crazy.
[00:35:55] You know what I mean? I learned a lot. And, the skills that you have, right? As an event planner. They scale up, right? And so sometimes you have to take a big risk. If you feel like you're stuck producing events that you're no longer finding rewarding because they're the same old, at the same scale, right?
[00:36:18] But you want to work on bigger events. You want to work on something bolder. Take a risk. It's scary. It was hard. Would never do it again. I mean, just I remember being in a hotel room and just literally breaking down crying because I just missed my wife and I missed my kids. Change the trajectory of my career.
[00:36:38] So that would be my advice to those listening to this is just take the risk.
[00:36:46] Rachel Moore: Thanks again to Geoff Thatcher for joining us on Event Experience. And thank you for listening. If you're enjoying the show, we'd love to hear it. Connect with us on social and subscribe, rate, and review us wherever you're listening. Also, don't forget to share the show with your colleagues and friends. You can find transcripts of each episode and key takeaways on bizzabo.com/podcast. On behalf of the team, thank you. We'll gather again soon for a new episode of Event Experience.
